r/Glasgow Tools

Title
Author	Scunnered20
Comment	This comes up every now and again, so a couple of points: * Nobody, and I mean nobody calls it the Clockwork Orange. Just had to be said. * An extension of what we know as the existing subway circle is probably never going to happen. The 2006 proposal was costed at roughly £2 billion. That was pre-financial crash and pre-crippling austerity. Add another £3b and we might be close to the cost today taking inflation into account. Outright extension has always been a technically difficult and questionable idea in terms of value for money, even when money was in good supply. Glasgow Subway has an entirely unique, tiny track gauge which means the trains themselves are designed entirely bespoke for the circle. How would a new circle or line integrate? Would it share rolling stock and tunnels, or run as a "parallel" subway network? Would this be cost efficient? It opens up a lot of questions regarding value for money. £2 billion gets you a lot of light rail lines which could do the job just as well. * Even if it's technically worth doing, you've then got to look at how Glasgow has changed. When the subway circle was built, it was one of the most densely packed cities in Europe, with one of the highest rates of population growth anywhere in the world. A subway made sense to get people en masse between the shipyards, the city centre, and the blossoming west end. Glasgow depopulated in the 1950s, with people being dispersed to faraway new towns. The population is more or less the same in pure numbers, it's just spread much much wider. A subway isn't necessarily good value for money for dealing with that. Suburban train tends to perform better (cost wise, journey time wise, capacity wise) over longer distances for a dispersed population like that. * As people have mentioned, a subway extension in one form or another has been explored by various authorities going back from the 1930s through to 2006. The current ambition is to deliver something different: a Clyde Metro network of light rail lines which run either on-road, on segregated routes, in tunnel, or to replace existing suburban rail routes. https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=27921
Reddit Link	https://www.reddit.com/r/glasgow/comments/yfjf0a/our_clockwork_orange_is_great_but_will_it_ever_be/iu4xb1c/
Created	Fri 28th Oct 2022 5:03pm
Status	normal ()

This comes up every now and again, so a couple of points:

* Nobody, and I mean nobody calls it the Clockwork Orange. Just had to be said.

* An extension of what we know as the existing subway circle is probably never going to happen. The 2006 proposal was costed at roughly £2 billion. That was pre-financial crash and pre-crippling austerity. Add another £3b and we might be close to the cost today taking inflation into account. Outright extension has always been a technically difficult and questionable idea in terms of value for money, even when money was in good supply. Glasgow Subway has an entirely unique, tiny track gauge which means the trains themselves are designed entirely bespoke for the circle. How would a new circle or line integrate? Would it share rolling stock and tunnels, or run as a "parallel" subway network? Would this be cost efficient? It opens up a lot of questions regarding value for money. £2 billion gets you a lot of light rail lines which could do the job just as well.
* Even if it's technically worth doing, you've then got to look at how Glasgow has changed. When the subway circle was built, it was one of the most densely packed cities in Europe, with one of the highest rates of population growth anywhere in the world. A subway made sense to get people en masse between the shipyards, the city centre, and the blossoming west end. Glasgow depopulated in the 1950s, with people being dispersed to faraway new towns. The population is more or less the same in pure numbers, it's just spread much much wider. A subway isn't necessarily good value for money for dealing with that. Suburban train tends to perform better (cost wise, journey time wise, capacity wise) over longer distances for a dispersed population like that.
* As people have mentioned, a subway extension in one form or another has been explored by various authorities going back from the 1930s through to 2006. The current ambition is to deliver something different: a Clyde Metro network of light rail lines which run either on-road, on segregated routes, in tunnel, or to replace existing suburban rail routes. https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=27921